A few days ago, another Central thread was created on how broken PvP was based on an entire day of observations. However, while KingsIsle should perhaps make some changes, I don't think that the cards are the problem at all.
A Revolutionary Idea
I am a Promethean Death player who does matches within my level range. I don't use any Jade Gear, and few treasure cards. My pet has neither Spritely nor Fairy Friend. And yet, I've not encountered but one "turtle" in my extremely numerous number of matches over the past several weeks. Rather, I've played multiple 45-minute or hour-long battles full of strategy, where only perfectly-timed cards can turn the tide. Long matches like that usually result in the both of us complimenting the other's strategy, and taking a look at their setup. I enjoy this kind of PvP VERY much! No, this isn't a lucky run in ranked. It's practice, and that's the difference.
Perhaps, then, it isn't so much that the game has gone downhill, or that KingsIsle is turning rogue, but that players striving for rank and tickets struggle to find any way possible to win. KingsIsle could tune some things up, however, namely Jade Gear, and perhaps add some restrictions on spells (I still firmly believe that in the near future, they'll have PvP-only cards - you can quote me on that).
The Difference is Clear
In these practice matches, I see the most diverse strategies, including ones I never saw in ranked or never saw mentioned elsewhere. Perhaps the reason for that is that most serious PvP players do ranked matches, in hopes of increasing their own numbers and earning tickets. However, when something isn't at stake, you can still play serious, but not be so obsessed with ranking that you will do anything to win.Pirate101's Executive Decision?
The developers disagree with me, saying something to the effect of "I don't see why we shouldn't have these things [in reference to a Bazaar, ranked PvP, etc.] as they are entirely optional." However, doing anything to win changes your mindset, in all areas of the game, not just ranked. If we didn't have ranked PvP, and didn't have tickets to gain or rank to lose, would people really do anything to win? Or would they be able to participate in fun, strategic matches like I have.
The arena isn't dead, and though KingsIsle needs some advice, I think it's really people that are the problem. If we communicate that this does not positively impact the arena, maybe it won't be so common. Also, you'd be surprised how many community members take part in this. Perhaps if we minimize complaining and take the spotlight off turtles and Jade Gear (As KingsIsle obviously can't see it anyway. Email them? Petition?), then fewer people will even be aware of how to use such strategies.
Summary
To summarize, I'm saying that KingsIsle has offered an incredible PvP experience with such card diversity, and has worked hard to maintain its balance. However, it is players that have muddied the waters and learned that they can win simply by spamming or doing things that are less-than-strategic.
I see the evidence even in my play style. I've gone from fun tactics to more number-based methods that are about effectiveness, and applied those to the game as a whole. That's why I'm worried about Pirate101 PvP. I really want it to be a great experience, and so it'll need a matching system, but I really hope we won't see any ranked.
Everyone runs around yelling "PvP is broken." I'd dare to counter with "No, people are broken."
Conclusion
Everyone seems to have a different opinion on this, and I'm curious to know what yours is. Let me know by commenting.
Thanks for reading and see you in the Spiral!
Very strong argument; I like it
ReplyDeleteDeep thinking my friend, but what if KingsIsle made it to be this way? What if those who dare to use strategies and spamming strategies will rise? I'm not one with the current deck I'm using but I used to spam dispels in Practice and as a balance I have access to every single one. Free. Right now I'm playing with critical gear and TERRIBLE resist due to no sub. I still get a lot of hateful comments which is why my friend wont want to ranked pvp even though we win most of our Practice. People are too mean in ranked. PvP is boring that way now.
ReplyDeleteThat's true. However, there are plenty of opportunities. For example, I'm a Musketeer. I can get up to six copies of Valor's Armor, which absorbs 5x and enemy's damage. That's generally considered not to be a very strategic card, and it isn't real balanced. Traditionally, I and other Musketeers don't really use it for that reason. However, come time for ranked PvP, I'll be needing an edge! Now, how about I use a couple of those, and you have to hit me 30 times before you even do any damage? Ha!
DeleteYep, can't have strategies like that. And that's just one example!
Pirate101 may be a little different. Spamming cannot happen, since there are no duplicate cards. Pirate101 has that hint of greater strategy that will never make it fall, because if you just spam regular attacks, you will definitely fall to strategic Swashbucklers like me. I go crazy on the battlefield if I feel doomed. Once, in the last battle of a dungeon in MooShu, it was 2 Samoorai Musketeers/Archers versus me, who was at the brink of dying. I hid, used a healing thing, and then set up a trap, killing a weakened one. I then used Shadowdance and went in for a X3 hit and Epic Criticaled it. I defeated the last one. But, anyways, in Pirate101, spamming will never work, as strategy will always prevail.
ReplyDeleteWhoops - meant to respond to your comment - see above!
DeleteI agree with you on Wizard101's PvP system and community attitude. I don't like PvP. I've also been met with harsh and unkind experiences that PvP less fun.
ReplyDeleteI don't like the way people are during PvP. They're mean a lot of times. A lot's just beat downs than real battling. From my own experiences, I don't feel like people bring 1.) their best positive attitude that makes everyone feel good winning or loosing and 2.) a different strategy that makes the duel interesting.
Just recently, I tried out Wizard101's new Tourney update on the Test Realm. I'll assume you've heard of it.
My first tourney was pleasant enough. I went into a 1v1 Tourney knowing I wasn't going to win but I was excited to try it out, see what I'd win. Round 1, I was set up with a Fire Wizard. What ended up happening was we made the match long enough to enjoy and we were actually DUELING each other. I'd block all his criticals. We prepaired for each other's hits. It was fun! He told me he almost had a heart attack at my block chance. What I loved was that it wasn't like a "KILL KILL KILL!" environment with people calling you this or that. We were using different spells and strategies and it was a good feeling.
We had an odd number of people so I had to sit out the 2nd Round. Round 3 was ok but short. If I'm not mistaken, I was up against a Storm guy who got me 2 minutes into the battle. Ugh, Storm have a way of making the match...too short and don't give time to actually enjoy it. 4th Round was bad because my opponent never confirmed so I won by forfeit. I ended up in 11th Position and won Agave, and 2 treasure cards.
My second try was awful. I was met with unkind people. Everyone I fought had some peice to the Jade Gear. I'm finding the gear extremely annoying and overused. I came to enjoy a duel like my first tourney, not a beat down. No one rooted for me, or at least give me a chance, a little boost. I found myself surrounded by negativity and little diverse strategy.
What makes me upset about our PvP is that people become overly competitive and make the match a bad experience. I see little effort in strategy and Jade Gear has become the god of gears. It's much. I don't mind losing at all. But I love a DUEL. Actually seeing a mix up in spells and actually putting up a challenge. That's what I love. But the people have taken that a twisted it in something...horrific.
I can't see this happening too much in a Pirate101 PvP. Even in Ranked. I can see some Classing having the upper advantage over others since some Classes can get 3-5 copies of one spell but, Pirate101 is so random and indefinite. There's no set way to do things and go with it. Only Privateers and Swashbucklers have any form of pierce so throw Armor Pierce, or Penetration, out the window. We'll never know the stats of our Opponent's Companions so anything can happen but it's highly likely you'd just about always -ALWAYS- see El Toro, one of the MooShu 5, and Bonnie Anne on the field. But no 2 battles are ever really alike.
My only concern of Pirate101 is how people will react to Ranked PvP. Let's face it. 50% of Wizard's features have already made it to Pirate101. We have the Bazaar, Packs, Simple PvP, Home PvP, Crown Shop etc. I think that it may come to a point where people might do anything to win and maintain rank. However Pirate101 is still small. Wizard101's popularity is both helping and killing it. Just look at comments on Youtube of popular songs or New York City with all it's people. Not exactly...kind sometimes. Wizard101 is no different with their 35 (soon 40) million players. Since it took Wizard 4 years to build itself this Empire of players, 'should take Pirate101 about the same, maybe slower as not many seem interested right now and see it very similar to Wizard101. I've seen comments saying some players won't play it.
But we'll see as the updates come and Pirate101 expands.
Agreed. :P
ReplyDeleteI find that practice pvp is a heck more enjoyable than ranked. Practice is more focused on strategy than spamming or using high ranked TC. And people seem to have better sportmanship.
Well said; people are indeed broken. Put under the melting pot of ranked, people are driven by desire to prove themselves better than others. This is exactly why some people even play games. Because they are not better than anyone else in real life and seeks redemption in a game. I understand this mindset; but this is the exact problem. I play League of Legends, another competitive game of PvP. You would not believe how mean people become once you're playing ranked. It's like fairies and unicorns in normal, demons and devils in ranked. Honestly the ranked system is flawed; you get happy at the expense of others. Although humans are sadistic in nature, ranked fuels this with rewards for being that level of sadism. I don't play ranked; why stress out over a game, whose goal is to relieve stress? Philosophical question to y'all, and see you around the spiral (and in practice PvP :)
ReplyDeleteI don't think people are broken, I look at the world, and see a reflection of the world in PvP. People are what they are, and all do not have the same ideas of what is ethical, etc.
ReplyDeleteKI controls the game, they need to set the rules, but have let it slide out of control. Maybe it' for more profit, I don't know, I don't run the company. Either way, KI needs to change PvP for the better, and considering the huge profits they make, they can do it.